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	<title>Comments on: Is Kevin Myers making sense?</title>
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	<description>Estd. in Ireland, July 2002</description>
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		<title>By: LonDubShire</title>
		<link>http://www.gavinsblog.com/2004/05/21/is-kevin-myers-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-948913</link>
		<dc:creator>LonDubShire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavinsblog.com/?p=1147#comment-948913</guid>
		<description>You &#039;need&#039; to be concerned!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I was born in London, lived in Dublin for a few years, spent my youth in Huddersfield, and am between homes, and deciding on location, simply because of wildfire immigration. I can, it seems, claim non-racist intent until the cows come home.... I won&#039;t be believed. I no longer care. I have no agenda, and my integrity remain intact!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I appreciate your perspective, and your motives are genuine(I hope?), but hindsight is a terrible approach, for the communities of which you write, warnings, which were blatantly avoided due to fear of that awful label, &#039;racist&#039;... and conceit!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You have.... &#039;been to Yorkshire, and Huddersfield, and yes there many Muslims, but does it bother me? Of couse not. Does it bother the other percentage of residents? Not in my experience.&#039;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Well thank you, firstly, for gracing us with your presence! Did it bother you? No... of course not... you don&#039;t live in ghettoised areas, and I say that from three different points of view!) There are FOUR communities in Yorkshire. White(UK &amp; Eire)), white(Other, primarily Eastern European), black(UK), and asian(muslim). Black and white communities are, in many instances, lessening tensions. I say &#039;lessening&#039; because that is exactly what is happening! There are immense social, communial, and basic differences to overcome, STILL! Asian influx in Huddersfield alone is diabolical. There is no such thing as integration, and multi-cultural liaison? It is segregation by proxy. The north/south divide is evergrowing. The south of England is swamped... a horrific term to apply to human beings, but the only applicable one! &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My father is Irish and the stories he tells me of when he first came to England, in the 1960&#039;s, repulse me. Signs on guesthouses read, &#039;NO DOGS, IRISH OR BLACKS&#039;. Police harrassment was prolific, and being the youngest of 10 children, he was LUCKY to have had forewarning and prior knowledge of the expected social atmosphere. The same experienced from Dubliners, when he first moved there from Cork! It happens! Basic instinct can not and will never be swayed. &#039;Local prominance&#039;, &#039;National pride&#039;, &#039;Racial bias&#039;, and &#039;Religious denomination&#039;, will always prevail.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I moved to Dublin in 1979, and lived in the north of the City until 1982. Yep... the roughest areas there! Ballyfermot, and Ballymun. Ballymun was an experiment in human endurance. Sean McDermott Tower, one of 7, surrounded by thousands of lower flats, was a hovel. (I understand they pulled them down, but drug culture is rife? Drugs weren&#039;t the problem then! It was trying to hold onto what little dignity the living conditions allowed, but if you treat a person like an animal... they will bite back! ) Being English, on those estates, at a time when Bobby Sands was fighting his cause, made life slightly uneasy, but I&#039;m here to tell the tale, but I do understand &#039;hatred&#039;, and true friendship, due to those times. It was, at first, &#039;them and me&#039;, but after acceptance, &#039;them and us&#039;. I read from time to time about the trouble that the kids in &#039;fermot, and &#039;mun, cause. It is distressing as they have never had it better! I am an architect, and my thesis in my masters, was social conditions, and the effect of Le Corbusier&#039;s visionary &#039;cities in the skies&#039;... he was wrong. They became, throughout the world, pillars of condemption.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I state the above for the sole reason as to why spontaneous communities, arising from immigration, and the wholescale movement, from south to north, of newly arrived migrants, with little or no, desire to integrate.... &#039;scares&#039; people. Not just the locals, but the immigrants too. Fear leads to a &#039;fight or flight&#039; situation, and a stand-off is the result. Tykes(Yorks residents) will never back down, it&#039;s against the very fabric of their nature, and immigrants, have often come from wartorn, crime-ridden, and lawless situations. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The government, today said that it was an out of control plight, that they inherited from the Tories. The Tories claim that when they broached the subject, they were hung out to dry... and they were! Sept 11th was a milestone, which was &#039;lockjawed&#039; by the Americans. They naturally overreacted. A cause of more immigrants. Blair and co. did all things for all people, he was a messiah in his own mind. When it hit the fan, he&#039;d feathered his bed, and had his suitcases packed. Europe does less. The result...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;...IS an explosive concoction. It will combust! &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Romanian, Czech, Lithuanian, and to a much greater extent, Poles, are flowing into an already volatile dilemma. Yet we still dilly and dally over whose fault it is that we have got to this stage? And whether it&#039;s &#039;racist&#039; to say that &#039;Yes, there are too many immigrants congregating in very small towns&#039;. The &#039;Rivers of blood&#039; speech.... was wrong only in the fact it was a premonition, not a statement of possible outcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You &#39;need&#39; to be concerned!</p>
<p>I was born in London, lived in Dublin for a few years, spent my youth in Huddersfield, and am between homes, and deciding on location, simply because of wildfire immigration. I can, it seems, claim non-racist intent until the cows come home&#8230;. I won&#39;t be believed. I no longer care. I have no agenda, and my integrity remain intact!</p>
<p>I appreciate your perspective, and your motives are genuine(I hope?), but hindsight is a terrible approach, for the communities of which you write, warnings, which were blatantly avoided due to fear of that awful label, &#39;racist&#39;&#8230; and conceit!</p>
<p>You have&#8230;. &#39;been to Yorkshire, and Huddersfield, and yes there many Muslims, but does it bother me? Of couse not. Does it bother the other percentage of residents? Not in my experience.&#39;</p>
<p>Well thank you, firstly, for gracing us with your presence! Did it bother you? No&#8230; of course not&#8230; you don&#39;t live in ghettoised areas, and I say that from three different points of view!) There are FOUR communities in Yorkshire. White(UK &#038; Eire)), white(Other, primarily Eastern European), black(UK), and asian(muslim). Black and white communities are, in many instances, lessening tensions. I say &#39;lessening&#39; because that is exactly what is happening! There are immense social, communial, and basic differences to overcome, STILL! Asian influx in Huddersfield alone is diabolical. There is no such thing as integration, and multi-cultural liaison? It is segregation by proxy. The north/south divide is evergrowing. The south of England is swamped&#8230; a horrific term to apply to human beings, but the only applicable one! </p>
<p>My father is Irish and the stories he tells me of when he first came to England, in the 1960&#39;s, repulse me. Signs on guesthouses read, &#39;NO DOGS, IRISH OR BLACKS&#39;. Police harrassment was prolific, and being the youngest of 10 children, he was LUCKY to have had forewarning and prior knowledge of the expected social atmosphere. The same experienced from Dubliners, when he first moved there from Cork! It happens! Basic instinct can not and will never be swayed. &#39;Local prominance&#39;, &#39;National pride&#39;, &#39;Racial bias&#39;, and &#39;Religious denomination&#39;, will always prevail.  </p>
<p>I moved to Dublin in 1979, and lived in the north of the City until 1982. Yep&#8230; the roughest areas there! Ballyfermot, and Ballymun. Ballymun was an experiment in human endurance. Sean McDermott Tower, one of 7, surrounded by thousands of lower flats, was a hovel. (I understand they pulled them down, but drug culture is rife? Drugs weren&#39;t the problem then! It was trying to hold onto what little dignity the living conditions allowed, but if you treat a person like an animal&#8230; they will bite back! ) Being English, on those estates, at a time when Bobby Sands was fighting his cause, made life slightly uneasy, but I&#39;m here to tell the tale, but I do understand &#39;hatred&#39;, and true friendship, due to those times. It was, at first, &#39;them and me&#39;, but after acceptance, &#39;them and us&#39;. I read from time to time about the trouble that the kids in &#39;fermot, and &#39;mun, cause. It is distressing as they have never had it better! I am an architect, and my thesis in my masters, was social conditions, and the effect of Le Corbusier&#39;s visionary &#39;cities in the skies&#39;&#8230; he was wrong. They became, throughout the world, pillars of condemption.</p>
<p>I state the above for the sole reason as to why spontaneous communities, arising from immigration, and the wholescale movement, from south to north, of newly arrived migrants, with little or no, desire to integrate&#8230;. &#39;scares&#39; people. Not just the locals, but the immigrants too. Fear leads to a &#39;fight or flight&#39; situation, and a stand-off is the result. Tykes(Yorks residents) will never back down, it&#39;s against the very fabric of their nature, and immigrants, have often come from wartorn, crime-ridden, and lawless situations. </p>
<p>The government, today said that it was an out of control plight, that they inherited from the Tories. The Tories claim that when they broached the subject, they were hung out to dry&#8230; and they were! Sept 11th was a milestone, which was &#39;lockjawed&#39; by the Americans. They naturally overreacted. A cause of more immigrants. Blair and co. did all things for all people, he was a messiah in his own mind. When it hit the fan, he&#39;d feathered his bed, and had his suitcases packed. Europe does less. The result&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;IS an explosive concoction. It will combust! </p>
<p>Romanian, Czech, Lithuanian, and to a much greater extent, Poles, are flowing into an already volatile dilemma. Yet we still dilly and dally over whose fault it is that we have got to this stage? And whether it&#39;s &#39;racist&#39; to say that &#39;Yes, there are too many immigrants congregating in very small towns&#39;. The &#39;Rivers of blood&#39; speech&#8230;. was wrong only in the fact it was a premonition, not a statement of possible outcome.</p>
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		<title>By: irish bob</title>
		<link>http://www.gavinsblog.com/2004/05/21/is-kevin-myers-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-160372</link>
		<dc:creator>irish bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Oct 2006 12:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavinsblog.com/?p=1147#comment-160372</guid>
		<description>ireland needs to have a complete rethink in relation to its immigartion laws
specefically in relation to muslims coming here
the harsh reality is that islam and 21st century liberal democrocy are incompatable
as many have said , islam needs its own reformation
muslims are always itiching to be offended by other communities but are themselves not in the least bit respectfull of ther faiths
this is not racist as islam is not a race, you cannot help the skin colour u were born with 
u can however change your belief system</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ireland needs to have a complete rethink in relation to its immigartion laws<br />
specefically in relation to muslims coming here<br />
the harsh reality is that islam and 21st century liberal democrocy are incompatable<br />
as many have said , islam needs its own reformation<br />
muslims are always itiching to be offended by other communities but are themselves not in the least bit respectfull of ther faiths<br />
this is not racist as islam is not a race, you cannot help the skin colour u were born with<br />
u can however change your belief system</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.gavinsblog.com/2004/05/21/is-kevin-myers-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-49228</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2005 21:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavinsblog.com/?p=1147#comment-49228</guid>
		<description>Sadly, James is right. Same story goes for many big cities in my country (Germany) these days. There is a section of the the Muslim community that doesn&#039;t want to integrate. While part of the blame must go to the natives as well who make it difficult for newcomers to integrate, ther&#039;s simply a sizebale element of people who don&#039;t want to adapt and while Kevin Myers isn&#039;t everyone&#039;s cup of tea, I&#039;d be  sorry, too, to see Athlone going down that road - or any place, not even Maynooth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, James is right. Same story goes for many big cities in my country (Germany) these days. There is a section of the the Muslim community that doesn&#8217;t want to integrate. While part of the blame must go to the natives as well who make it difficult for newcomers to integrate, ther&#8217;s simply a sizebale element of people who don&#8217;t want to adapt and while Kevin Myers isn&#8217;t everyone&#8217;s cup of tea, I&#8217;d be  sorry, too, to see Athlone going down that road &#8211; or any place, not even Maynooth.</p>
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		<title>By: James Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.gavinsblog.com/2004/05/21/is-kevin-myers-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-45002</link>
		<dc:creator>James Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jan 2005 18:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavinsblog.com/?p=1147#comment-45002</guid>
		<description>I live in one of those towns and I&#039;ll tell you: it&#039;s not a matter of &quot;So what?&quot; There is already a lot of racial tension and violence and I&#039;m not looking forward to the day that figure gets to 60%, 70%, 80%, 90%. Muslims are not self-effacing and tolerant people, and Ireland would be very wise not to go down the same road, because there&#039;s no way back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in one of those towns and I&#8217;ll tell you: it&#8217;s not a matter of &#8220;So what?&#8221; There is already a lot of racial tension and violence and I&#8217;m not looking forward to the day that figure gets to 60%, 70%, 80%, 90%. Muslims are not self-effacing and tolerant people, and Ireland would be very wise not to go down the same road, because there&#8217;s no way back.</p>
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		<title>By: Dick O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://www.gavinsblog.com/2004/05/21/is-kevin-myers-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-2698</link>
		<dc:creator>Dick O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavinsblog.com/?p=1147#comment-2698</guid>
		<description>Funny, what Myers says about Muslims in Ireland could have been said about the Irish in England during the 50s and 60s. We had a different religion, Catholicism, and all of its attendant cultural baggage. What&#039;s more, while most of us could have been classed as &quot;hard-working and law-abiding&quot;, a minority were the &quot;jihadistas&quot; of yesteryear, namely Irish Republicans. Strange that none of this heralded the end of civilisation as we know it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny, what Myers says about Muslims in Ireland could have been said about the Irish in England during the 50s and 60s. We had a different religion, Catholicism, and all of its attendant cultural baggage. What&#8217;s more, while most of us could have been classed as &#8220;hard-working and law-abiding&#8221;, a minority were the &#8220;jihadistas&#8221; of yesteryear, namely Irish Republicans. Strange that none of this heralded the end of civilisation as we know it.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart</title>
		<link>http://www.gavinsblog.com/2004/05/21/is-kevin-myers-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-2699</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavinsblog.com/?p=1147#comment-2699</guid>
		<description>&quot;jihadistas of yesteryear, namely Irish Republicans&quot;, says Dick.
Well Dick, if it wasn&#039;t for men and women sacrificing themselves, you would still be waving a Union Jack flag for the latest visit of a foreign royal member.  Maybe you wish that Ireland was never born.  However do not dare equate Irish Nationalism against British aggression in Ireland with the current Holy War in the Middle East and Americas misled response to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;jihadistas of yesteryear, namely Irish Republicans&#8221;, says Dick.<br />
Well Dick, if it wasn&#8217;t for men and women sacrificing themselves, you would still be waving a Union Jack flag for the latest visit of a foreign royal member.  Maybe you wish that Ireland was never born.  However do not dare equate Irish Nationalism against British aggression in Ireland with the current Holy War in the Middle East and Americas misled response to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Shah</title>
		<link>http://www.gavinsblog.com/2004/05/21/is-kevin-myers-making-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-2700</link>
		<dc:creator>Shah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavinsblog.com/?p=1147#comment-2700</guid>
		<description>Is Dick really equating Irish Nationalism with Jihad?  I don&#039;t think so.  He mentions the 60&#039;s, the beginning of the troubles.  And of course at that time it is hard to paint the IRA as noble liberators when they were on the brink of starting a brutal terror regime that would target anyone who got in their way.   While the current &quot;holy war&quot; has no political aims, it still is using violence to try to alter politics.  That&#039;s little different from the ethos of the IRA.  
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is Dick really equating Irish Nationalism with Jihad?  I don&#8217;t think so.  He mentions the 60&#8242;s, the beginning of the troubles.  And of course at that time it is hard to paint the IRA as noble liberators when they were on the brink of starting a brutal terror regime that would target anyone who got in their way.   While the current &#8220;holy war&#8221; has no political aims, it still is using violence to try to alter politics.  That&#8217;s little different from the ethos of the IRA.</p>
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